“What’s the bodega like on Coruscant?”: Tony Gilroy on the production of “Andor” – and the fight against a “Michael Clayton” TV series

With its inhabited feeling and measured speed, Andor is a very different breed of Star Wars show, and its showrunner, Tony Gilroy, is a very different breed of Star Wars creator. He didn’t have minimal interest in the franchise until 2016, when he joined as a screenwriter Villain Onehis extensive curriculum vitae as an author and director preferred the realistic and down-to-earth – writing bournes Movies was about as fantastic as it had gotten. (On the other hand, Gilroy co-wrote 1997 The Devil’s Advocatein which Keanu Reeves becomes Satan’s attorney, and was one of six credited writers at Michael Bay Armageddon.) Gilroy spoke recently Rolling Stone over do Andor feels real and why he’s not interested in pursuing his directorial debut, the classic 2007 legal thriller Michael Clayton.

You ran a British Film Institute master class on screenwriting and advised writers to start with a small idea. What was the little idea here?
Well, the question [from Lucasfilm] was, “We want to do a show about Cassian Andor, and we want to do five seasons. So let’s take it back five years.” This is the playground everyone should be playing in.

So one thing was clear: the guy at the end who’s going to sacrifice himself for the galaxy is complicated and he’s dangerous and he’s certainly tainted and morally complicated, but he really is a remarkable package of skills and intelligence. And when you do a show and it runs for five years and you track him down, you want to start him as plausibly far away from the person that we know about Villain One. What does that mean? Where is he? How big a hole can I put it in? how is his life I mean, I wanted to explain his accent. And that got me into an origin story that seemed interesting and grew into what you’ve seen now.

And it’s a show where war is coming. What happens in the five years before the war comes? One side is highly organized. Empire is extremely organized, and it’s a textbook game of power consolidation. What is happening on the other side? I knew I needed someone very similar to the character Stellan Skarsgård is playing. You know, who are the people out there building the networks that anticipate what’s going to happen? Who are the people who are so outraged and so afraid of what is going on and are either vengeful or mindful? There must be some people trying to tie that together, someone like Stellan’s character who has worked in this field for a long time and was a combination talent scout, organizer and behind-the-scenes puppeteer.

The first three episodes are a neat little tight story there. It’s not very expansive in a way, but you can see how we’re going to start getting huge in four and we’re just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

You avoided reading the Bourne books while making these films. I wonder to what extent you wanted to maintain your innocence towards the Star Wars universe and to what extent you really needed to study this stuff just to make it all make sense.
That’s a really interesting question and a really complicated answer because it’s a really delicate balance. I’ve learned a lot villain over a period of time and I also learned a lot about rules and canon and what to do. So at the time we were talking about that Andor I knew a lot about the ground-level stuff. I have five years to worry about and historically those five years are really strong. They are certainly highly dramatic. There are some really big canon moments that need to be built in, but there’s also just an intriguing and huge amount of undiscovered [material]. what’s behind the door What’s in the other room?

The other part of the answer is it’s very difficult. When Mandalorian came, I was really excited to see what they are doing and it was really fun. After a while as we drove off [with our show]I [decided to wait] until we’re done to come back and see more. We’re on such a different track and it can be confusing, sonically more than anything.

We also have so many people involved in this [with Andor]. This is such a huge undertaking. So we have a real mix – people who have absolutely no prior experience with Star Wars and people who are super cultists, obsessed, Star Wars people. And there’s also the very big advantage of a Vatican of sorts in San Francisco [the Star Wars story group at Lucasfilm], which give us a way to constantly review our work. So we do that all the time, with everything from props to wardrobe and costumes to the ships and the rest.

Realizing that you can never make five seasons as planned, you decided to consolidate the four remaining seasons into one. What was it like making that switch?
I just said, “I wonder what would happen if we accelerated our storytelling now” because we’ve done such rigorous work on going into this detail. “Now what happens if we take a different tempo and use each block of three as a year, and we leave these huge gaps in between and make the negative space of it really, really huge and awesome and important?” And we went and shared [Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy], because we had no idea what the expectation was. And they said, “No, we’re into it.” And it’s a whole new narrative toy that I never could have played with.

It feels like streaming opens up a lot of new structural possibilities.
You know, everyone decides, “What’s the right length for my story?” I mean, people choose the frame for their stories. 15 years ago no playwright had this opportunity. And now it becomes even more liberating.

There was talk initially that you would direct the whole show in addition to show running. What have you lost and what might you have gained by not directing this?
I won survival. [Laughs.] This show is simply a maximum imaginative experience. Everything we do has to be designed. In every environment that we go to – and we will go to many different environments – you have to shape the culture, its music. how do they eat how do they dress

What’s really funny about what you’re saying is that it’s exactly the same thing George Lucas said about why these films were so difficult to make.
Oh really? I did not know that. But I mean I’m sure. Because that’s just the way it is. You can never say, “Oh, they go to the bodega.” Because what does the bodega look like on Coruscant? And that only gets 40 people and 17 meetings off the ground. What are the products? What do you sell? Everyone had their hands full. There was a lot to do. [Laughs.]

Also, as a sort of non-Star Wars person, do you have a favorite movie?
No, I don’t want to go into that. I mean, I vividly remember seeing the first one in Boston in 1977, I think the week after it came out. That was a setback experience. But no, I don’t have a good answer for that.

Tell me about the new droid B2EMO.
That’s what I wanted. It wasn’t commissioned by anyone or anything. We wanted a recovery droid. But I also thought, you know, a droid that’s an old dog. let’s have a dog Let’s have that emotional component and see how it goes. And again, this is something you tiptoe towards. You don’t want it to be cheesy or cute. It’s supposed to be really emotional. [Creature effects artist] Neil Scanlan and the creature department – so fun to go there and they are so awesome.

They’re filming the second season in November. So all written?
Well it certainly is known. Yes. The writing process is super complicated because we’re really trying to get everything absolutely perfect and it’s 700 pages of original material. It’s an incredible amount of scene work and actors. I’m expecting the final script from my brother [screenwriter and director Dan Gilroy] on his block in a week. I owe my three scripts, but they’re all sketched. We know exactly what we’re doing, but the details of that will likely be worked out by April.

Is there a mental trick you use to make all of this real to you as you write?
It’s like always. It makes people feel fully dimensional in your imagination and really understand them. And it doesn’t matter – people talk about villains or write women or write creatures or whatever; it’s an empathic interest in what motivates that particular character.

There’s a couple of buy-ins that are hard for Star Wars that you get used to pretty quickly – you know, the physics of some of them and whatever. But the whole goal every day from every department is, “Let’s make this a real place.”

I dont know. Whatever trick this is, it’s the same trick I used to fool myself.

It’s called “writing”, I guess. Finally you thought about doing something more in the Michael Clayton Universe? A prequel, a sequel, a series, a novel – anything?
No, I have vehemently opposed any attempt to do a Michael Clayton TV show. And I’ve seen a few shows that certainly resembled a Michael Clayton TV show! [Laughs.] This was such a perfect experience for me and it was such an important thing for me. It kind of revitalized my career and gave me credibility. I don’t want to mess with that. It’s such a nice thing to have in your portfolio. Why mess it up? Why dilute? There are other ways to make money.

The same with Moth. We also resisted it. Danni [Gilroy, who wrote and directed the movie] feels just like me You do the thing and it’s exactly what you wanted to do and it’s perfect. And it lands culturally the way you want to land. And it’s like, “Let’s take our pretty thing and shred it.” I don’t want to do this.